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Thread: Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida

  1. #1

    ice Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida

    FOUR CORNERS – New DNA testing has revealed that an unidentified woman found along a rural Florida road in 1988 was transgender.

    “This could really help us identify this person because gender-reassignment surgeries weren’t as common back then,” Lake County Sheriff’s Detective Tamara Dale said.

    The decomposing remains were found Sept. 25, 1988, in Four Corners. Investigators said the body apparently had been dragged into the woods and wore a greenish tank top with a long acid-washed skirt and pantyhose that were partially rolled down.
    They also determined that she had had several cosmetic surgeries, including breast implants.

    A cause of death never was found, but a lab determined that the woman likely had given birth to one or more children. The case remained one of 107 cold cases in the county.

    “We were getting leads based on the description we released and we followed all of them, but it shouldn’t come to a surprise we didn’t crack the case,” Dale said.
    “We were looking for the wrong person.”

    The woman’s remains were tested again under a statewide initiative to revisit unsolved cases.

    New DNA tests concluded the remains belonged to someone who was born a man.

    The detectives who first investigated the case never considered that the body belonged to someone possibly estranged from family before making the transition from a man to a woman.

    The body had been sent to the C.A. Pound Human Identification Laboratory in Gainesville, part of the University of Florida’s Department of Anthropology, and analyzed by world-renowned forensic anthropologist William Maples.

    Maples said she was a tall woman between 24 and 32 years old, with a robust, athletic build.

    Michael Warren, who now leads the lab and made the discovery in the Lake County case, said Maples could have made the mistake for a number of reasons.

    Pits on the pelvis were found, which once was thought to indicate a person had given birth.

    Warren said it’s rare to see it in men, but this person would have been taking high amounts of estrogen during a gender transition.

    DNA testing also was just starting in the late 1980s and was often too expensive for law enforcement to use, Warren said.

    The closest areas that might have offered gender-reassignment treatments in the 1980s would have been Miami, Atlanta and New Orleans, he said.

    I can't find her on Namus yet. Will try and find more information, and hopefully there is a sketch or clay model.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida

    Many thanks to Never forget me, who found this link:

    Sketch is very unclear, let's hope someone will make a better one soon, or create a clay model:

    On September 25, 1988, a woman's partially decomposed body was discovered hidden in tall weeds in a wooded, slightly swampy rural area of Lake County, Florida, which is east of Orlando. They were unable to determine a cause of death or examine her internal organs due to advanced decomposition, which generally progresses faster internally because of bacteria in the gut, but believed she was cisgender and that she had even given birth in the past. She was found clothed in a greenish tank top, long acid-washed “Manisha” brand denim skirt, and pantyhose which had been rolled down -- suggesting a sexual element to the crime. Her body had been dragged to the secluded location away from the road, so someone moved her after she died in an apparent attempt to conceal her body and prevent discovery. That is extremely uncommon after natural death.

    She was between 22 and 35 years old, Caucasian, about 5'10 give or take an inch, 170ish lbs in life, with naturally brown hair grown long and bleached blonde. She had long, well-manicured fingernails, and an examination of her teeth showed that she had some fillings. She suffered at least one serious blunt-force traumatic injury to her face in the past, fracturing her right cheekbone, which had healed prior to her death. Other healed fractures include a rib and a toe, and possibly her nose. They noticed she had plastic surgery done on her nose, and that she had breast implants. Even with a preliminary sketch and questioning people in the area, none of the tips panned out and the case went cold.

    After two unidentified women in Florida were Identified by DNA as missing women previously ruled out as being matches, Florida started re-examining all their unidentified decedent cases with fresh eyes. The new medical examiner immediately thought her skeletal dimensions indicated someone who had a hormonal balance more typical of males during skeletal growth, but once they were sure they had the right body they sent off the DNA. The results came back this month showing that she had an XY genotype, which rules out previous pregnancy.

    The changes to her pelvic bones thought to indicate childbirth were likely the result of years of estrogen therapy. Her 250cc silicone breast implants, according to an expert in 1988, had been discontinued five years before her death. This means she likely had her upper body reassignment no later than 1984, since surgeons in the United States rarely implant medical devices more than a year after they are manufactured. Her rhinoplasty may have been done as a part of her transition and/or to treat the cosmetic results of prior facial trauma.

    They are unsure if or when she had full reassignment, but her body was not completely skeletonized when she was discovered, and no one saw anything in her remaining soft tissues that suggested she was not cisgender. The most likely places she may have had her reassignment done were Miami or Atlanta based on distance, but it was also possible she lived in or near New Orleans, New York City, or California during her transition. The process at that time generally required extensive counseling and a year of living full-time with the gender expression typical of the gender the patient intended to be reassigned to prior to any surgery, and in most cases of male-to-female transition at least orchiectomy was performed back then before starting hormonal treatments. Ordinarily, the details of surgical procedures done as part of the transition process are not matters of public interest, but in this case they are likely to help return her name to her.

    However, even in 2014 more than 40% of transgender individuals lack identification that matches their gender expression. Even though many choose to reject the name they were born with, she is most likely listed in public records by her birth name. In this instance, it's almost as important as her true name to getting justice and a proper burial for her. Many transgender people are unfortunately estranged from their birth families, though after 30 years hearts and minds change. No parent sleeps well if one of their children is gone, however, and her family at least deserves to know the truth.

    Members of the Unresolved Mysteries subReddit have nicknamed her “Julie Doe", in homage to the statuesque Hollywood star and LGBT ally who had a cameo appearance in To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar. They have also started a Facebook page, and the case has been submitted to the Doe Network for inclusion in their database of unidentified decedents and long-term missing persons. Redditors have been instrumental in getting DNA testing performed on a potential match to “Grateful Doe”, and while initial DNA results were inconclusive, Jason Callahan is the first person who has not been conclusively ruled out.

    Transgender Day of Remembrance is coming up tomorrow, and while Julie may be silent now, her very bones give testimony to the violence routinely inflicted on transgender people. The cause and manner of her death are officially undetermined, but her skeletal markers show significant evidence of prior physical assault. According to the Anti-Violence Project of Massachusetts, 61% of transgender individuals reported being violently assaulted at least once because of their gender identity or expression. Transgender people who are the victims of hate crimes are also more likely to have been sexually assaulted than others who experienced hate crime violence in the LGBTQ community, though the entire community is far more often targeted for sexual assaults than other victims during hate crimes. The violence isn't new -- and the fact it is still happening nearly 30 years later is deplorable. She deserves justice. She deserves her name.

    Someone remembers her -- maybe someone who transitioned in the late 1970s or early 1980s remembers seeing her at appointments in the waiting room? Maybe she was a member of a support group for people who were transitioning then? Once they have a likely match, her Y chromosome will help with identification because her paternal lineage can be traced, similarly to how mitochondrial DNA testing can identify maternal lineage.

    If anyone has information about this woman's identity, or about the circumstances surrounding her death, please contact the Lake County Sheriff's Office at 352-343-2101.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida

    There must be a forensic expert who could make a good clay model of her face, or a better sketch? There are parents out there, mother, father ,and maybe brothers and sisters, who's son/ brother got missing, changed into a female, and there will be something to recognize him even after changing gender? Mostly those transgenders keep almost the same face, they often looked female before they changed gender, and I somehow think his parents or siblings would recognize him. So please, can someone make a better sketch, or even better, a clay model of her face!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida

    New Sketch of "Julie Doe", Transgender Woman Still Unidentified After 27 Years

    The Lake County Sheriff's Office has issued a new reconstruction for "Julie Doe”, the unidentified transgender woman found dead in 1988 who has remained nameless for the last 27 years. The 1988 autopsy determined she had given birth to at least one child in the past, but the method they used is outdated. DNA testing revealed she had an XY genotype.

    She was between the ages of 22 and 35 according to her profile on the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System, or NamUs, and was about 5'10 with naturally brown hair. Her upper body reassignment surgery was likely done no later than 1984, because her 250cc silicone breast implants had been discontinued for five years at the time of her death, and was most likely performed in either Miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, New York City, or California. She also had a rhinoplasty, and had likely been on hormonal therapy for several years before her death.

    Someone knows who she is. Police are requesting that any physicians who treated patients with gender dysphoria in the late 1970s and early 1980s, as well as anyone who transitioned or was close to the transgender community during this timeframe, search their records/recollections for Julie.

    She may have mentioned at least one physical assault that fractured her cheekbone and likely broke her nose. She also had a healed rib fracture.

    You may have seen her as a patient in one of the six clinics that treated gender dysphoria at that time in the United States, or in a support group for individuals transitioning during those years.

    You may also have seen her in 1988 or thereabouts in the Orlando LGBT community.

    If you recognize Julie Doe, or have any information about the circumstances surrounding her death, please contact the Lake County Sheriff's Office at 352-343-2101.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida

    It's weird because this guy went missing in 2014 and there is such a resemblance, but it definitely isn't Scott

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by Starless View Post
    No shoe size mentioned, clothing just like the shoes found beside the body. Also found in the vicinity a small bag containing animal bones (??)

  8. #8

    Default Re: Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida


    "silastic" breast implants

    possible healed fracture anterior left 7th rib; healed fracture of the right cheek bone secondary to blunt trauma; healed fracture to the right 5th toe.

    Evidence of a surgical rhinoplasty

    I found someone who could fit the sketch, but that is about it, he's not from the US and had a shorter index finger (phalanx). If they found the healed fracture on the right toe I guess they would also have seen the shorter index finger on his left hand, so than it can't be him.
    A snapshot DNA report could show where he/she was likely from, and could be helpful.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida

    The nose doesn't match, as Julie had plastic surgery done on her nose, but I think he could fit the sketch?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cold case woman was actually transgender, Florida

    Only one exclusion on Namus:

    Wendy Huggy 1965 Florida

    Guess she was added before they knew Julie Doe was transgender.

    Still think Andrew could match this victim:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Julie Doe and Andrew Jackson Greer.jpg 
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ID:	2800

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